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	<title>Comments on: Hebrews 2:9 &#8211; Separated by Grace (Part 5)</title>
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	<link>http://www.witheringfig.com/new-testament/hebrews-29-separated-by-grace-part-5/</link>
	<description>In principio erat Verbum...</description>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.witheringfig.com/new-testament/hebrews-29-separated-by-grace-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-33795</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Do you intend on finishing this study, it is very interesting and I am excited to hear your conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you intend on finishing this study, it is very interesting and I am excited to hear your conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.witheringfig.com/new-testament/hebrews-29-separated-by-grace-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-31110</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.witheringfig.com/?p=939#comment-31110</guid>
		<description>Hi Stephen,

I was studying this issue last year in my seminary doctoral studies. My dissertation (unfinished) seeks to show that Jesus actually emptied (often mistranslated in Phil. 2:6-7) himself of the form of God (divine nature) and equality with God - in the period between his human conception and his resurrection.  

My dissertation focused on the title &quot;Son of God&quot; and sought to show that this title had no trace of deity for a century or more after Christ. I was mainly dealing with John&#039;s Gospel, showing that John does not present Jesus as God between his human conception and his resurrection (John 1:1 &amp; 20:28 are outside this period).  All other references to the &quot;deity&quot; of Christ in John&#039;s Gospel  are questionable (5:18; 8:58; 10:30, 33; 19:7; etc.). On the other hand, texts such as Mark 10:18; 13:32; John 5:19; 10:36; 14:28; Acts 10:38; Rom. 1:4 (also poorly translated); 2 Cor. 8:9; Heb. 2:9, 17; etc. show that Jesus was not equal with God during his earthly ministry.  Romans 1:4 says that Jesus was “ordained” (not “declared”) to be the Son of God. He became the Son at a point in time (&quot;today&quot; Heb. 1:5). He was not always the Son. Furthermore, he depended on the Father for so much during his earthly sojourn that the &quot;fully&quot; God concept (during this stage only) must be seriously questioned -- Jesus prayed to the Father, was tempted, got tired, did not seek his own glory, or his own will, depended on the Father for his doctrine, power, authority, etc.  When I read Ehrman&#039;s book last year, I was shocked to see such a clear statement about Jesus being &quot;without God&quot; in the New Testament.  

What I have been proposing for some time now is the idea that God cannot die (he lives forever - Deut. 32:40). The Logos (the second Person of the Trinity) abandoned the divine nature for 33 or so years (and took on a human nature permanently) so that he could die for the sins of humanity. He learned obedience and was tempted in all things (without actually sinning).  He was dependent on the Father and Spirit for his knowledge and power.  This is the Jesus of the New Testament. 

Being a conservative theologian, I then had to explain how such radical change could occur in the Trinity (thus, my paper on the myth of divine immutability). Jesus made the greatest change in the history of humanity - and he continues to live with the permanent effects of that change.

Happy to converse more, if you are interested in doing so.

Sam Brown</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Stephen,</p>
<p>I was studying this issue last year in my seminary doctoral studies. My dissertation (unfinished) seeks to show that Jesus actually emptied (often mistranslated in Phil. 2:6-7) himself of the form of God (divine nature) and equality with God &#8211; in the period between his human conception and his resurrection.  </p>
<p>My dissertation focused on the title &#8220;Son of God&#8221; and sought to show that this title had no trace of deity for a century or more after Christ. I was mainly dealing with John&#8217;s Gospel, showing that John does not present Jesus as God between his human conception and his resurrection (John 1:1 &amp; 20:28 are outside this period).  All other references to the &#8220;deity&#8221; of Christ in John&#8217;s Gospel  are questionable (5:18; 8:58; 10:30, 33; 19:7; etc.). On the other hand, texts such as Mark 10:18; 13:32; John 5:19; 10:36; 14:28; Acts 10:38; Rom. 1:4 (also poorly translated); 2 Cor. 8:9; Heb. 2:9, 17; etc. show that Jesus was not equal with God during his earthly ministry.  Romans 1:4 says that Jesus was “ordained” (not “declared”) to be the Son of God. He became the Son at a point in time (&#8220;today&#8221; Heb. 1:5). He was not always the Son. Furthermore, he depended on the Father for so much during his earthly sojourn that the &#8220;fully&#8221; God concept (during this stage only) must be seriously questioned &#8212; Jesus prayed to the Father, was tempted, got tired, did not seek his own glory, or his own will, depended on the Father for his doctrine, power, authority, etc.  When I read Ehrman&#8217;s book last year, I was shocked to see such a clear statement about Jesus being &#8220;without God&#8221; in the New Testament.  </p>
<p>What I have been proposing for some time now is the idea that God cannot die (he lives forever &#8211; Deut. 32:40). The Logos (the second Person of the Trinity) abandoned the divine nature for 33 or so years (and took on a human nature permanently) so that he could die for the sins of humanity. He learned obedience and was tempted in all things (without actually sinning).  He was dependent on the Father and Spirit for his knowledge and power.  This is the Jesus of the New Testament. </p>
<p>Being a conservative theologian, I then had to explain how such radical change could occur in the Trinity (thus, my paper on the myth of divine immutability). Jesus made the greatest change in the history of humanity &#8211; and he continues to live with the permanent effects of that change.</p>
<p>Happy to converse more, if you are interested in doing so.</p>
<p>Sam Brown</p>
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		<link>http://www.witheringfig.com/new-testament/hebrews-29-separated-by-grace-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-29861</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitted by witheringfig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
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