Hot off the heels of my frustration with SparkLife, I decided to tackle Ricky Gervais’s “Holiday Message.” Due to its length, I will skip some stuff. I don’t feel like I’ve skipped anything particularly crucial, but correct me if I’m wrong. Let me also say that I think Gervais is a fantastic comedian. I love The Office and Extras.
Why don’t you believe in God? I get that question all the time. I always try to give a sensitive, reasoned answer. This is usually awkward, time consuming and pointless. People who believe in God don’t need proof of his existence, and they certainly don’t want evidence to the contrary. They are happy with their belief. They even say things like “it’s true to me” and “it’s faith”. I still give my logical answer because I feel that not being honest would be patronizing and impolite. It is ironic therefore that “I don’t believe in God because there is absolutely no scientific evidence for his existence and from what I’ve heard the very definition is a logical impossibility in this known universe”, comes across as both patronizing and impolite.
I agree with you, Mr. Gervais: I see no hard scientific evidence for the existence of God either. In fact, I’m working on a blog post on that. The basic idea is this: I can’t prove the supernatural by looking only at the natural.
What some of my theist friends might find patronizing is this bit about “logical impossibility.” I’m glad that you add “known universe” here — what about the unknown?
Arrogance is another accusation. Which seems particularly unfair. Science seeks the truth. And it does not discriminate. For better or worse it finds things out. Science is humble. It knows what it knows and it knows what it doesn’t know.
Again, we are in agreement. Science is pretty honest about what it doesn’t know. However, one of the things that it doesn’t know are those things that are beyond the realm of science. Now, hardcore adherents who put all of their faith in science (and you seem to be one of these) tend to discount that there is anything that science can’t know. That’s where we differ.
…I’m saying God doesn’t exist. I’m not saying faith doesn’t exist. I know faith exists. I see it all the time. But believing in something doesn’t make it true. Hoping that something is true doesn’t make it true. The existence of God is not subjective. He either exists or he doesn’t. It’s not a matter of opinion. You can have your own opinions. But you can’t have your own facts.
OK. Fair enough. But, recognize that you too are putting your faith in something. Namely, you’re putting your faith in science to explain the entirety of the universe (though, at least you admit that we don’t know everything yet). You are looking at the natural world and saying: That’s all there is. I’m looking at the natural world and asking: What else could there be?
Why don’t I believe in God? No, no no, why do YOU believe in God? Surely the burden of proof is on the believer. You started all this. If I came up to you and said, “Why don’t you believe I can fly?” You’d say, “Why would I?” I’d reply, “Because it’s a matter of faith”. If I then said, “Prove I can’t fly. Prove I can’t fly see, see, you can’t prove it can you?” You’d probably either walk away, call security or throw me out of the window and shout, ‘’F—ing fly then you lunatic.”
In this case would you not appeal to the laws of physics to offer a proof for why a human being can’t fly?
This, is of course a spirituality issue, religion is a different matter. As an atheist, I see nothing “wrong” in believing in a god. I don’t think there is a god, but belief in him does no harm. If it helps you in any way, then that’s fine with me. It’s when belief starts infringing on other people’s rights when it worries me. I would never deny your right to believe in a god. I would just rather you didn’t kill people who believe in a different god, say. Or stone someone to death because your rulebook says their sexuality is immoral.
The idea that atheists have not used their (un)belief to infringe upon the rights of others seems to be implied here. This is, of course, untrue. Look at atheistic governments: USSR, People’s Republic of China, Khmer Rouge, North Korea, etc. What you don’t like is when someone’s commitment to a certain ideal infringes upon someone else’s rights. I’m with you. This is not a phenomenon particular to religion, however. We can setup any value as something to fight about.
It’s strange that anyone who believes that an all-‐powerful all knowing, omniscient power responsible for everything that happens, would also want to judge and punish people for what they are.
This statement, no doubt, has rhetorical force in certain circles, but there is no argument here. Simply because something is strange or silly doesn’t make it untrue.
When confronted with anyone who holds my lack of religious faith in such contempt, I say, “It’s the way God made me.”
Ha! I find that genuinely funny…if you said that to me, I’d crack up.
The dictionary definition of God is “a supernatural creator and overseer of the universe”. Included in this definition are all deities, goddesses and supernatural beings. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities.
So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God”, I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.
You stole that bit from Christopher Hitchens. It’s clever, but you’re better than that.
I used to believe in God. The Christian one that is.
This story is interesting to me, let’s read on…
I loved Jesus. He was my hero. More than pop stars. More than footballers. More than God. God was by definition omnipotent and perfect. Jesus was a man. He had to work at it. He had temptation but defeated sin. He had integrity and courage. But He was my hero because He was kind. And He was kind to everyone. He didn’t bow to peer pressure or tyranny or cruelty. He didn’t care who you were. He loved you. What a guy. I wanted to be just like Him.
One day when I was about 8 years old, I was drawing the crucifixion as part of my Bible-‐studies homework. I loved art too. And nature. I loved how God made all the animals. They were also perfect. Unconditionally beautiful. It was an amazing world.
I lived in a very poor, working-‐class estate in an urban sprawl called Reading, about 40 miles west of London. My father was a laborer and my mother was a housewife. I was never ashamed of poverty. It was almost noble. Also, everyone I knew was in the same situation, and I had everything I needed. School was free. My clothes were cheap and always clean and ironed. And mum was always cooking. She was cooking the day I was drawing on the cross.
I was sitting at the kitchen table when my brother came home. He was 11 years older than me, so he would have been 19. He was as smart as anyone I knew, but he was too cheeky. He would answer back and get into trouble. I was a good boy. I went to church and believed in God – what a relief for a working-‐class mother. You see, growing up where I did, mums didn’t hope as high as their kids growing up to be doctors; they just hoped their kids didn’t go to jail. So bring them up believing in God and they’ll be good and law abiding. It’s a perfect system. Well, nearly. 75 percent of Americans are God-‐fearing Christians; 75 percent of prisoners are God-‐fearing Christians. 10 percent of Americans are atheists; 0.2 percent of prisoners are atheists.
But anyway, there I was happily drawing my hero when my big brother Bob asked, “Why do you believe in God?” Just a simple question. But my mum panicked. “Bob” she said in a tone that I knew meant, “Shut up.” Why was that a bad thing to ask? If there was a God and my faith was strong it didn’t matter what people said.
Oh … hang on. There is no God. He knows it, and she knows it deep down. It was as simple as that. I started thinking about it and asking more questions, and within an hour, I was an atheist.
I don’t doubt any of this. What I do find troubling is that you are still clinging to these ideas that you formed when you were eight-years old. No doubt, you are a sharper guy than I, but I just can’t think of anything important that I believed when I was eight.
So, I must ask: Have you critically thought about this stuff since then? Have you attempted to see the other side? Have you put yourself in the theist’s shoes and said: “OK, how would things look different?”
I learned of evolution – a theory so simple that only England’s greatest genius could have come up with it. Evolution of plants, animals and us – with imagination, free will, love, humor. I no longer needed a reason for my existence, just a reason to live. And imagination, free will, love, humor, fun, music, sports, beer and pizza are all good enough reasons for living.
I’m on board with evolution. I’m not on board with your reasons to live. Human existence seems horribly depressing — why press on? Do these things bring that much enjoyment? I love imagination, free will, love, humor, fun, music, sports, beer, and pizza (and the Oxford comma I just inserted), but outside of love they all seem so self-centered. If I’m living for only my happiness, then why not just move on from this mortal coil?
But living an honest life – for that you need the truth. That’s the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, in the end leads to liberation and dignity.
So what does the question “Why don’t you believe in God?” really mean. I think when someone asks that; they are really questioning their own belief. In a way they are asking “what makes you so special? “How come you weren’t brainwashed with the rest of us?” “How dare you say I’m a fool and I’m not going to heaven, f— you!”
No. Some of us are just curious. I used to be an atheist. I know why I thought that way. Why do you think that way? I really want to know. Thanks for answering.
Above, you were incredulous that people would find you patronizing and impolite. Claiming that those who believe in a god have been brainwashed is impolite.
Let’s be honest, if one person believed in God he would be considered pretty strange. But because it’s a very popular view it’s accepted.
Indeed, that would be strange. Most unpopular views aren’t “accepted.” Atheism is now a popular view so it is generally accepted. If one person was an atheist, that would be strange, right?
And why is it such a popular view? That’s obvious. It’s an attractive proposition. Believe in me and live forever. Again if it was just a case of spirituality this would be fine. “Do unto others…” is a good rule of thumb. I live by that. Forgiveness is probably the greatest virtue there is. Buts that’s exactly what it is -‐ a virtue. Not just a Christian virtue. No one owns being good. I’m good. I just don’t believe I’ll be rewarded for it in heaven. My reward is here and now. It’s knowing that I try to do the right thing. That I lived a good life. And that’s where spirituality really lost its way. When it became a stick to beat people with. “Do this or you’ll burn in hell.”
Don’t want to dwell on this here, but I disagree with you. I don’t find this to be a nice idea. Rather, I find the idea of judgment by an omniscient, omnipotent being to be quite terrifying.
Again, we come back to the moral argument. Where do these ideas of what is good and virtuous come from? Who/what created them?
Thanks, Mr. Gervais, for posting your thoughts. I really do appreciate your humor and candor. Now get back to making television so I can laugh!